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Post by drmichaelrhodes on Jun 1, 2008 10:40:44 GMT -11
This week Ghost Hunters will air TAPS' investigation of Moss Beach Distillery in California. The promo for the episode shows Jay and Grant discovering what appears to be a mechanical device in the ceiling connected to one of the lamps that hangs over the bar. The promo gives the impression that there was an attempt to fool TAPS with rigged effects.
It is true that TAPS didn't know the Distillery was rigged, but it wasn't rigged for TAPS. It is widely known that the Distillery has various special effects designed to simulate haunting and poltergeist phenomena that other people have reported over the years. Parapsychologist Loyd Auerbach has been the central investigator of alleged paranormal activity at the Distillery since 1991. Auerbach has given me permission to share this very helpful account of the motivation and nature of the rigged effects at the Distillery. As you'll see from Auerbach's account, there's no sensible reason why TAPS should not have known about this.
Michael -------------------
From Loyd Auerbach: "I was involved in the initial set up of the special effects at the Moss Beach Distillery in the late 1990s -- which are computer-controlled/recorded recreations of some of the reported phenomena at the Distillery, phenomena which began in the early 1930s. However, the effects were deliberately set up with specific lamps that were not previously reported as moving (it was other lamps), a different mirror in the ladies room (different from the mirror where the ghost's image has been seen multiple times), etc.
"The computer records all simulated effects, and individual activations. In that way, if there's any question as to whether 'the ghost did it' or not, there's a record to check.
"No effort to hide the effects has been made. I (Loyd Auerbach) have discussed the effects in several televised and print interviews, on multiple radio shows, and in his extensive write-up of the Moss Beach Distillery case in his book A PARANORMAL CASEBOOK (Atriad Press, 2005). In one major cable show (which constantly repeats) detailing haunts in the Bay Area, the Distillery was featured and the segment included the special effects.
"Googling the Moss Beach Distillery brings up articles that mention the special effects.
"I spoke with a producer identifying himself as working on GHOST HUNTERS several days before the team was to go to the Distillery. While the conversation was about the Presidio in San Francisco, the subject of the Distillery came up -- I asked specifically if they were aware of the special effects. I was told they were.
"The likely reason neither the owner nor the manager mentioned them is because there are SO many places where the effects are mentioned. Anyone doing even light research on the phenomena in sources less than 10 years old can hardly help but run across discussion of the effects.
"Finally, the reported phenomena has been occurring since the early 1930s. I got involved in 1991 and have conducted numerous investigations there before any special effects were installed. There has been real, documented physical phenomena at the Distillery prior to the installation of the effects. I have personally had numerous experiences there -- something I can't say about a lot of places.
"I helped with that installation (consulting, helping to get the initial contractors, and more). The phenomena is real. The phenomena went on for over 65 years before the effects were even conceived of. The effects are fun, to add to the 'experience' of the restaurant. And the effects are no secret."
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Post by chrissy on Jun 1, 2008 11:44:22 GMT -11
hmmmm wonder why they didnt take this into consideration? Unless this is one of those episodes that they use to show that they are not "faking" evidence. You know like a ohhhhh lookkkkkk we dont fake evidencce someone else tries to screw with us type of thing. I am interested in watching the episode though
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Post by drmichaelrhodes on Jun 1, 2008 13:20:55 GMT -11
hmmmm wonder why they didnt take this into consideration? Unless this is one of those episodes that they use to show that they are not "faking" evidence. You know like a ohhhhh lookkkkkk we dont fake evidencce someone else tries to screw with us type of thing. I am interested in watching the episode though Chrissy, It's not clear how they intend to spin this one. There's really no excuse for TAPS not knowing that this place has special effects. It's everywhere on the Internet. You don't even have to be a Californian to know it. And certainly anyone in the business of paranormal investigations should have known it. And I think TAPS needs to come clean on this one and just say, "we blew it." I understand that in Vegas the odds are presently 900 to 1 that this will happen. I'm not sure what the usual turn-around time is from investigation to the airing of an episode. Pilgrim has been sitting on (or spinning on) this episode at least since last summer or early fall. Jay and Grant gave a presentation on the investigation at UNIV-CON in October 2007. Michael
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Post by chrissy on Jun 1, 2008 14:37:22 GMT -11
well maybe they have been holding this epi due to that simple fact. The fact that they know its going to be a controversial episode and they didnt want that press, but with the tides changing on the "set" of GH this is now something that they are not worried about anymore. Since they are now flat out calling it a docu-soap, maybe they are taking the "its entertainment" road in opposed to the its scientific paranoramal investigation route. We will have to see
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Post by drmichaelrhodes on Jun 1, 2008 16:34:52 GMT -11
well maybe they have been holding this epi due to that simple fact. The fact that they know its going to be a controversial episode and they didnt want that press, but with the tides changing on the "set" of GH this is now something that they are not worried about anymore. Since they are now flat out calling it a docu-soap, maybe they are taking the "its entertainment" road in opposed to the its scientific paranoramal investigation route. We will have to see Chrissy, I'm guessing that Pilgrim presents this investigation as one in which TAPS displays their expertise in detecting fakery. Pilgrim can then justify withholding information about the rigged effects on the grounds that they were trying to prove how smart TAPS is, that this was the angle or design of the episode. (Pilgrim may have even stipulated that the owner and manager were not to mention the rigged effects). The episode will then expand TAPS' debunking repertoire. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Pilgrim has the contractual right to do this sort of thing. Ahhh, the problem though is that this strategy makes sense only if the rigged effects are not the sort of thing that TAPS should have known about in advance of the investigation. But that's not the case. I suspect that here Pilgrim just put down $20 on red...regional ignorance. If I were an executive producer with Pilgrim I would select a location that doesn't have any special effects, use professionals to rig the place, and send TAPS in blind. If TAPS discovers the fakery, use it as a season opener to prove how good these guys really are. (The next best thing to capturing paranormal activity is capturing fakery. It sells.) If TAPS doesn't figure it out, place the footage in a building that mysteriously burns down, and all knowledgeable parties die in "natural accidents" or are paid off. If the word still gets out, do a film about the entire plot. Apart from the possibility of serving a life sentence, it's not a bad idea for paranormal drama. Actually, Samuel Goodman once suggested this as an idea for my old series. Instead we went with that episode in which a group of psychics use their collective telekinetic powers to kill the guy responsibe for cutting off funding to the group. They tried to kill me too but failed. :-) Michael
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sandstone
Artemis
Be gneiss, and don't take your friends for granite!
Posts: 405
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Post by sandstone on Jun 1, 2008 16:35:30 GMT -11
Thanks for sharing this with us, Michael!
An important part of any scientific investigation is a reference search of past investigations, relevant related studies, and the history of a study location. This is so basic it boggles the mind to imagine it not being done.
All I can say is GH is entertainment, not to be confused with any kind of documented scientific investigative work.
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Post by drmichaelrhodes on Jun 2, 2008 14:36:36 GMT -11
An important part of any scientific investigation is a reference search of past investigations, relevant related studies, and the history of a study location. This is so basic it boggles the mind to imagine it not being done. Sandstone, Indeed it does. What boggles the mind even more is the extent to which diehards are going to defend TAPS on this. I've seen more logical sleight of hands and rhetorical acrobatics on the official TAPS forum in response to my posts than I've seen from the White House since we went into Iraq. Apparently we must wait for the "real truth" from Grant and Jay. We can't even trust what Kris Williams says about the investigation. She doesn't know. Nobody knows...but the gods. Well, if the truth here is anything like it was regarding the Manson episode, we're better off with fiction. Michael
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sandstone
Artemis
Be gneiss, and don't take your friends for granite!
Posts: 405
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Post by sandstone on Jun 2, 2008 16:20:08 GMT -11
An important part of any scientific investigation is a reference search of past investigations, relevant related studies, and the history of a study location. This is so basic it boggles the mind to imagine it not being done. Sandstone, Indeed it does. What boggles the mind even more is the extent to which diehards are going to defend TAPS on this. I've seen more logical sleight of hands and rhetorical acrobatics on the official TAPS forum in response to my posts than I've seen from the White House since we went into Iraq. Apparently we must wait for the "real truth" from Grant and Jay. We can't even trust what Kris Williams says about the investigation. She doesn't know. Nobody knows...but the gods. Well, if the truth here is anything like it was regarding the Manson episode, we're better off with fiction. Michael I wish I could take a peek at the TAPS forum to see thier response to you, but I got banned from there before I realized how much they hate scientists. (Never admit to using evil ANTI-TAPS methodologies, up to and including the unwarrented use of logic and common sense).
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Post by drmichaelrhodes on Jun 2, 2008 17:07:33 GMT -11
[/quote]I wish I could take a peek at the TAPS forum to see thier response to you, but I got banned from there before I realized how much they hate scientists. (Never admit to using evil ANTI-TAPS methodologies, up to and including the unwarrented use of logic and common sense).[/quote]
Sandstone,
When were you banned? I'm curious as to whether we were on the forum at the same time, that is, during one of my previous incarnations in the forum as a medieval theologian. That was back in the Manson episode days, the good old days....
Michael
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Post by thugbob on Jun 2, 2008 17:49:59 GMT -11
Well. We will have to wait and see.
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sandstone
Artemis
Be gneiss, and don't take your friends for granite!
Posts: 405
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Post by sandstone on Jun 3, 2008 1:05:51 GMT -11
I wish I could take a peek at the TAPS forum to see thier response to you, but I got banned from there before I realized how much they hate scientists. (Never admit to using evil ANTI-TAPS methodologies, up to and including the unwarrented use of logic and common sense).[/quote] Sandstone, When were you banned? I'm curious as to whether we were on the forum at the same time, that is, during one of my previous incarnations in the forum as a medieval theologian. That was back in the Manson episode days, the good old days.... Michael [/quote] It wasn't that long ago, Michael. It was in March 08. I had just gotten back into watching GH. I had been living in the states during the first 2 seasons of GH, so I had watched it back then. We moved to Canada and I forgot about the show until the re-runs started being shown here. For a while we even watched the show on Skiffy on a friends satillite hookup. Then I made the mistake of logging into the TAPS forum. I only lasted a few days before getting banned. Funny thing is, I went to the TAPS forum rather than the Skiffy one because I heard Grant say such nasty things about Skiffy's boards on his radio show. I thought the TAPS forum would be fun, but I found out in short order that newbies are not welcome. The whole story is found on the Skiffy boards in the "Why is TAPS afraid of skeptics" thread. I don't watch GH very often anymore. But I found this community and enjoy it, so the end result was worth the ride.
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Post by literarysnob on Jun 3, 2008 3:41:39 GMT -11
I'm a member of the TAPS forum...but I have never posted there. I signed up and looked around and they are a bunch of fanatics that is was really very scary. Their mind set over there is crazy!! Even their forum rules are very militant!! No one ever tells you to have fun on their forums!!!
They seem to subscribe to a total control of their followers minds and if one acts out from the prescribed behaviors then you are out!!
They can't seem to take an origional idea and all forum members must bowdown to the TAPS gods of Grant and Jay!!!
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Post by drmichaelrhodes on Jun 3, 2008 5:41:50 GMT -11
They can't seem to take an origional idea and all forum members must bowdown to the TAPS gods of Grant and Jay!!! Literary Snob, I agree. I was reading some posts on the Sci-Fi board about the TAPS moderators and the history of their Gestapo-like tactics, of which I've been on the receiving end many times. It's all fairly sad but well known at this point. One of the problems in that forum is that the list rules place some major limitations on critical discussion. You can't provide any links to sources, and they tend to delete quotations from sources, if the sources make TAPS look bad. (I'm shocked that they haven't deleted my Auerbach post, though they did delete another thread in which I commented on this week's episode). Last year, in connection with the Manson episode fiasco, I quoted Jay from his blog (where he called the critics idiots) and moderators removed it, along with my response. When a TAPS fan posted the same blog material, it was permitted. They are clearly gunning for critics. The good news is that it's been in part the result of the poor treatment of people in the TAPS forum that new discussion groups have formed. Michael
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stick28
Artemis
Once I had a secret love. But then she spotted me and got a restraining order.
Posts: 217
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Post by stick28 on Jun 3, 2008 8:55:22 GMT -11
I guess I'll wait to see how TAPS pulls this off. There have been promos in the past that did not accurately represent the episode's actual content. Maybe this is one of those.
It's difficult to believe that Pilgrim has not learned that the forums and blog world will fry GH if the team tries to claim they "discovered" the rigging during the investigation. The first part of any investigation is to find out everything you can about the site, and a quick google led to me the Moss Beach Distillery home page, and of course, I clicked "Our Ghost." I saw nothing there about recreations, but there was a link to Auerbach's site where he mentions "recreations." I suspect any thorough research, including asking the owners, would yield the info.
My brief research also uncovered complaints of high prices, poor service, average food and unimpressive views. Perhaps that's the real reason TAPS is investigating the MBD - the place needs the exposure to revitalize the customer base.
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Post by literarysnob on Jun 3, 2008 9:04:23 GMT -11
I guess I'll wait to see how TAPS pulls this off. There have been promos in the past that did not accurately represent the episode's actual content. Maybe this is one of those. It's difficult to believe that Pilgrim has not learned that the forums and blog world will fry GH if the team tries to claim they "discovered" the rigging during the investigation. The first part of any investigation is to find out everything you can about the site, and a quick google led to me the Moss Beach Distillery home page, and of course, I clicked "Our Ghost." I saw nothing there about recreations, but there was a link to Auerbach's site where he mentions "recreations." I suspect any thorough research, including asking the owners, would yield the info. My brief research also uncovered complaints of high prices, poor service, average food and unimpressive views. Perhaps that's the real reason TAPS is investigating the MBD - the place needs the exposure to revitalize the customer base.Stick I think you hit the nail right on the head!!! here's a few old terms you might also google! Payola Kickback
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