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Post by xXSpookyXx on Nov 7, 2008 17:57:31 GMT -11
I find in my travels that many people feel either passionately in favor of the death penalty or venomously against it. Either way, I've seen many a raging debate of this very controversial subject. Where do you stand on this issue?
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Post by ♥~KarinaKay~♥ on Nov 8, 2008 2:29:20 GMT -11
In the middle. I'm always afraid of executing an innocent person, and I'm not certain the death penalty is applied equally among the various groups. If your rich, you'll be less likly to receive it than a poor person. And then I think of people who have committed some truly heinous crimes, and I really can't see any reason to keep them around. Especially serial killers and people with anti social personality disorder, like Ronald DeFeo. He is a complete waste of tax payer's money.
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Post by «Foz» on Nov 8, 2008 2:38:53 GMT -11
I completely agree with you, KK. I think that there has to be absolutely no doubt of a person's guilt for them to be executed. I vaguely remember hearing about someone who, in the past few years, was found innocent of a crime but had already been executed some time ago.
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stick28
Artemis
Once I had a secret love. But then she spotted me and got a restraining order.
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Post by stick28 on Nov 8, 2008 3:00:44 GMT -11
Since we are on the topic of the death penalty, I have a question and maybe someone here has some insight.
Why is it that liberals are against the death penalty for even the worst murdering scum, even though that person (using the term loosely) is an adult, and made the decision to take one or more lives, but they have no problem tearing apart the helpless body of an unborn, or partially born, totally innocent human baby?
Seems vary hard to justify those two incongruous positions.
I'm not trying to start a debate about abortion, or the death penalty. I'm just wondering if anyone has any knowledge that might explain the view.
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Post by xXSpookyXx on Nov 8, 2008 8:04:29 GMT -11
For the record I am very conservative, however, I may be able to shed some light on this issue.
First off, it is important to note that liberals does not automatically = anti DP just like conservative does not = pro DP. I have met numerous people from both sides that are either pro or anti.
Secondly, the reasons for being against DP vary and can not all be lumped into one reason. For instance, yes there are such people that do exist that seem to have more of a bleeding heart for monsters rather than victims. But there are also people who are against the DP because they feel that murder is wrong, even if it means legalized killing and feel that it should stop when a person is incarcerated, rather than carry on the legacy of death. Then there are others who feel that Death Row is an easy out for people that they feel should be forced and made to pay for the horrible thing they did for the rest of their natural born life. These people consider Death Row a release, that releases the scumbag of his responsibility since once he's dead he/she is free and no longer imprisoned and paying for what they did. So essentially in their mind those putting the monster to death are being much kinder to this scum than it is to force them to grow old and gray, alone in a dark cell, banging their head against the wall, praying for death.
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CougarBob
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Post by CougarBob on Nov 8, 2008 13:14:12 GMT -11
For the record I am very conservative, however, I may be able to shed some light on this issue.
First off, it is important to note that liberals does not automatically = anti DP just like conservative does not = pro DP. I have met numerous people from both sides that are either pro or anti.
Secondly, the reasons for being against DP vary and can not all be lumped into one reason. For instance, yes there are such people that do exist that seem to have more of a bleeding heart for monsters rather than victims. But there are also people who are against the DP because they feel that murder is wrong, even if it means legalized killing and feel that it should stop when a person is incarcerated, rather than carry on the legacy of death. Then there are others who feel that Death Row is an easy out for people that they feel should be forced and made to pay for the horrible thing they did for the rest of their natural born life. These people consider Death Row a release, that releases the scumbag of his responsibility since once he's dead he/she is free and no longer imprisoned and paying for what they did. So essentially in their mind those putting the monster to death are being much kinder to this scum than it is to force them to grow old and gray, alone in a dark cell, banging their head against the wall, praying for death. Okay, first Stick. I am somewhat liberal on some issues yet somewhat conservative on others. I do NOT support abortion for the sake of birth control. In cases of rape, incest and to protect the life of the mother, yes (generally speaking). But, in cases of "oops", no I don't agree with it.
The death penalty is a NO. First of all it is not punishment. People learn from punishment. What's to learn from being killed? The whole idea of our government calmly and meticulously killing someone is aberrant to me. It smacks of revenge. Revenge is not something I want my government involved in. Legalized murder cannot be condoned. I know there are horrible people out there who are not worthy of any sympathy. And, if it was a love-one of mine, I would want some revenge. Fortunately, those cases are not up to me. I also agree with those that believe executing someone is letting them off the hook. Why should they be released, humanely, after the crimes they committed. I think the death penalty simply lets them off.
But the main reason I oppose it is that there have been way too many cases of innocent people either being saved at the last minute, or being executed. I've always said that if just one innocent person is executed, it is time to through the whole system out the window.
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Post by ♥~KarinaKay~♥ on Nov 8, 2008 13:24:02 GMT -11
It's actually cheaper to keep them alive, than it is to execute them.
Anti socials never feel remorse, but they do fear their own deaths. Ted Bundy had no guilt, but he tried to make every deal he could so he could stay alive. To me, it isn't revenge - I just see no reason to keep them around. And now that we have DNA, if the DNA can be matched, I see no problem with lethal injection.
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Post by xXSpookyXx on Nov 8, 2008 16:42:23 GMT -11
It's actually cheaper to keep them alive, than it is to execute them. Anti socials never feel remorse, but they do fear their own deaths. Ted Bundy had no guilt, but he tried to make every deal he could so he could stay alive. To me, it isn't revenge - I just see no reason to keep them around. And now that we have DNA, if the DNA can be matched, I see no problem with lethal injection. But that fear is for a moment. Once they are dead, they no longer suffer fear, or anything. They are free of their wrong doings for ever. This has actually been a motivating factor for some of the prison murders that have taken place in states that have DP, where a lifer just couldn't stand it anymore so he senseless killed some one else in order to get death row.
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stick28
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Post by stick28 on Nov 9, 2008 2:45:43 GMT -11
Good responses, guys, but I only see half the answer. I realize there are varying views on the death penalty, and on abortion. But what I don't see in the responses is a reconciliation of the disparity between anti-death penalty and in favor of abortion.
It's a tough question, I know. If you research it you will find that many Republicans oppose the death penalty, and many Democrats oppose abortion.
Until 2004 Democrats had pro-death penalty in their platform, only removing it from their platform for John Kerry. Likewise, many Republicans wish to allow abortion in certain extreme cases, and prefer to eliminate the death penalty consistent with their view against killing.
But, how can a person rationalize being against killing but support unrestricted abortion - or do you think I'm over-stating the case as perhaps there are few people who actually have those conflicting views.
One more personal note: When I was a young officer I was confronted by a man in a shopping plaza parking lot. He had a shotgun and was threatening to kill a young woman. I was a hair's breadth from killing him when I saw an opportunity and was able to disarm him. After that he continued for many years with a life of causing misery to innocent people - he served some time in prison, but he always seemed to get out because he "was mentally ill" and had been "treated and was ready to return to the community." His final act was to break into a home, abduct and rape a mother and her 16 year old daughter. He left the mother bound, naked, beaten, in a closet, and took the daughter to a nearby motel where he held her hostage. Before SWAT had time to act, he put a rifle in the girls hands, held the barrel to his face, and told her if she didn't kill him, he would kill her. She pulled the trigger, killing him - something I should have done 15 years earlier. Think of the misery it would have saved if I had just dropped him in that parking lot.
I favor the death penalty for the worst of the worst. Not as punishment, or deterrent, but just taking out the trash. Harsh, I know, but reality is harsh.
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Post by xXSpookyXx on Nov 9, 2008 4:40:31 GMT -11
I think it is the way of which some of these antis view a fetus. Some antis are also anti abortion. But those in favor of abortion, from watching them argue when presented this same senario you presented, they do not consider a developing fetus early on in pregnancy to be fully a human yet. These kind tend to be against late term abortions. But I suppose if you have one that favors all, you got a seriuos contradiction because how can anyone say that a fetus that might be able to thrive outside the mother in emergency situations isn't yet human? Sounds like this man was very afraid of doing life behind bars, of which such crime pretty much guaranteed.
The problem with second guessing is, we never know who is going to graduate to rape and murders, and if we killed everyone that was violently on their way to a downward spiral for something they might do, that would be quite a few people, and many of them may never have done what some do go on to do.
I wanted to add that being a cop, you wind up seeing the ugliest that humanity has to offer. As well as often times, being subjected to the most dangerous of situations. It really takes a lot and you put up with a lot. I commend people like you who take on this job which is among the most tramatic, yet often feel as though unappreciated
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Post by JoeGeist on Nov 9, 2008 5:39:33 GMT -11
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CougarBob
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Post by CougarBob on Nov 9, 2008 5:43:51 GMT -11
As for me, I don't feel like there is any disparity between my anti-abortion and anti-death penalty positions. I am very much opposed to both. Except in the cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother, I opposed abortion. And, I am completely opposed to the death penalty.
I do see the disparity in many political stances. The liberals oppose the death penalty, but not abortion and the conservative oppose abortion, but not the death penalty. I think there are a lot of confused people out at the ends of the political spectrum.
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Post by xXSpookyXx on Nov 9, 2008 5:57:02 GMT -11
But the reason why a conservative might oppose abortion but not the death penalty would be because said conservative views a fetus as a live human life at moment of conception. They view this live human as an innocent harmless baby that never hurt anyone nor deserves to die. Vicious and cold blooded killers on the other hand, they view as people who made a conscious choice to inflict cruelty, pain and death upon another and do not deserve to live, unlike an innocent little baby.
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CougarBob
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Post by CougarBob on Nov 9, 2008 13:04:49 GMT -11
But the reason why a conservative might oppose abortion but not the death penalty would be because said conservative views a fetus as a live human life at moment of conception. They view this live human as an innocent harmless baby that never hurt anyone nor deserves to die. Vicious and cold blooded killers on the other hand, they view as people who made a conscious choice to inflict cruelty, pain and death upon another and do not deserve to live, unlike an innocent little baby. That's because it hasn't occurred to them that the "innocent harmless" fetus might be a liberal or an illegal alien trying to sneak into the country.
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Post by xXSpookyXx on Nov 9, 2008 15:55:12 GMT -11
That's because it hasn't occurred to them that the "innocent harmless" fetus might be a liberal or an illegal alien trying to sneak into the country. J/K
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