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Post by krystalmoore1986 on Jun 7, 2008 12:23:06 GMT -11
I watched this documentary the other day because my husband told me to and maybe because I do not understand the basic idea of quantam physics but I just didn't get what it was trying to say. Basically they were saying that say for example you get hit with a basketball and it hurts that its just an illusion because the basketball didnt really touch you the electrons repeled eachother between your hand and the ball. Also it was saying that anything you see isn't really there it is in multiple places at once. It also stated a theory that what you cant see as possible you cant see. Like it said that when columbus hit america the indians just saw ripples in the ocean and couldnt see the ships because their brains couldnt register what they were seeing. I don't know it I believe in any of this I just couldn't understand what they were trying to say. Does anyone know how to explain quantam physics in how they relate to the things I just mentioned? Or has anyone seen this movie. It just doesn't seem possible what they are suggesting. www.moviesfoundonline.com/what_the_bleep_do_we_know.php
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Post by hoobsmom on Jun 7, 2008 12:29:00 GMT -11
OH my gosh Krys just reading that paragraph made my head hurt. I am sure someon will come up with an answer for you though.
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Post by JoeGeist on Jun 7, 2008 12:51:38 GMT -11
Well quantum physics is largely theoretical and based on observations that can't necessarily be explained by anything other than math and probabilities. Since math is used many equations have been found to work to explain the probabilities of events. These different equations basically are the basis for the various theories that are out there. For example Einsteins math give us four dimensions in which our Universe takes place. The 3 spatial dimensions and time. In these four dimensions every thing is very predictable through Newtonian physics, but at the quantum (really small) scale things are no longer predictable. To explain some of the findings it has been theorized that there are more dimensions than the four we observe. We aren't aware of these dimensions because they are folded into the other four we observe. Any way it has also been proposed that these really small particles travel through and are shared in the other dimensions simultaneously with our own. So when you factor this in something could potentially be in multiple places at once, one copy for every dimension. The problem w/ quantum theory is that it is mostly theory. Just because math equations may work out in a proof doesn't mean the theory the equation is trying to back up becomes gospel. I hope that helps a bit. I'm sure if IFPthenQ sees this he will add some more light to my Geistian logic. A few good authors for quantum mechanics are Michio Kaku, and Steven Weinberg. Kaku deals w/ the more theoretical and is an easy read. Weinberg deals more w/ the GUT or Grand Unified Theory, the dream that Einsteins physics and quantum mechanics will be joined together for a theory of everything. If you want to kick it old school you can go back to the beginning and check out Max Plank he's the father of quantum theory.
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Post by hoobsmom on Jun 7, 2008 12:57:36 GMT -11
OK another post that makes my eyes cross. I can see this is going to be a thread for the smart guys and I will be moving along.
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Post by krystalmoore1986 on Jun 7, 2008 13:02:41 GMT -11
Joe you sound just like the guys in the moviefilm that confused me in the first place. But....
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Post by JoeGeist on Jun 7, 2008 13:09:26 GMT -11
D'oh, I pm'ed Ifp so hopefully he'll come by and shed some light.
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Post by hoobsmom on Jun 7, 2008 13:18:59 GMT -11
OK well Ifp will have plenty to say but I am not sure it will help Krys. We need a Quantum Physics for dummies book for her and I.
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Post by literarysnob on Jun 7, 2008 13:20:31 GMT -11
Okay, I get it...So I wasn't really hit by a truck while crossing the street it was just those nasty little electrons repelled each other into my body and especially my head!! What ever it was it really hurt!!! And it got me a sizable compensation check...and after the medical bills were paid attorney got more than I did...And I was the one taking the ride on the windshield!!!
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Post by ifpthenq on Jun 7, 2008 14:06:15 GMT -11
I watched this documentary the other day because my husband told me to and maybe because I do not understand the basic idea of quantam physics but I just didn't get what it was trying to say. Basically they were saying that say for example you get hit with a basketball and it hurts that its just an illusion because the basketball didnt really touch you the electrons repeled eachother between your hand and the ball. Also it was saying that anything you see isn't really there it is in multiple places at once. It also stated a theory that what you cant see as possible you cant see. Like it said that when columbus hit america the indians just saw ripples in the ocean and couldnt see the ships because their brains couldnt register what they were seeing. I don't know it I believe in any of this I just couldn't understand what they were trying to say. Does anyone know how to explain quantam physics in how they relate to the things I just mentioned? Or has anyone seen this movie. It just doesn't seem possible what they are suggesting. www.moviesfoundonline.com/what_the_bleep_do_we_know.phpPlease God make Marlee and the film go away...see scientists can pray. QM theories are extremely difficult to understand, and without some real study they will likely confuse most people. I still have to look up a great deal of my QM when I am writing or discussing it. Plus, there are many theories as to the level of reality implied by QM, QED, QCD; the Copenhagen interpretation being the most written about. The WTB movie is really bad quantum mech.; the extended version has a couple of real experimental quantum mech. features (such as the double slit experiment) but outside of that it is highly spurious. The Quantum M. standard model posits that reality is made up of particles and waves. These particles come in a variety of flavors but generally speaking are bosonic or fermionic in nature (relating to the spin of the particle)...too much... The way in which we measure particles is by banging them off of each other in supercolliders--this gives us the location and mass of the particles involved--but not the path or velocity. This relates theoretically due to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle--claiming that we cannot know both the location and the velocity of a particle; also implies that the way we look at the sub-atomic universe changes some of that universe, making a perfect observer free objectivity impossible. The double slit ex. tells us that particles travel in waves but seem to do so in a highly probablistic way--and are based upon our own ability to measure them. When we have a single slit the particles produce an expected single line on the plate; when two slits are present a pattern that indicates multiple diffracted waves. The probabilities of where a particle will be at a given moment are all we can predict with any accuracy--some believe this makes the universe an actually random place--others seem to believe it makes the universe an unknowable place (objectively). The standard model in physics relates the 3 main forces--weak force (radioactivity), strong force (keeps atoms together), and electromagnetism; the fourth force, gravity, is explained by relativity theory--current unification theories (such as string theory) are trying to link gravitation and the 3 QM forces. The indians certainly saw the ships--and we have no evidence that would indicate they did not. That is a psychological interpretation of QM that was popular in the 60's and 70's with New Age people (a few of which seem to have influenced the film) but is out of favor with modern science. The hypothesis that we create our own reality (literally assumed in the movie) is not proven scientifically--nor is consistent with any QM observational data. Realize that D. Albert (one of the physicists in the film) was more than slightly miffed at the general interpretation of QM given in the film--the "Down the Rabbit Hole" version shows his post film pissiness; though I agree with his perspective more than Wolf or Ramtha (the channeled being through J.Z. Knight). A little light reading: Some explanation of Particle theory: www.pha.jhu.edu/~dfehling/A really big version of the Standard Model chart: www.fisicx.com/quickreference/science/particles.htmlHere is a government website with links galore (most lead to source material and are not mathematically friendly): pdg.lbl.gov/2004/reviews/contents_sports.html#stanmodeletcHere is the Wiki source--not great but not bad at summing up either: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanicPGA
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Post by ifpthenq on Jun 7, 2008 14:08:57 GMT -11
Okay, I get it...So I wasn't really hit by a truck while crossing the street it was just those nasty little electrons repelled each other into my body and especially my head!! What ever it was it really hurt!!! And it got me a sizable compensation check...and after the medical bills were paid attorney got more than I did...And I was the one taking the ride on the windshield!!! It is true that electrons repel one and other--most of what we perceive as real, solid matter, is mostly made up of empty space. Was Geist driving the truck? ;D PGA
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Post by literarysnob on Jun 7, 2008 14:22:14 GMT -11
What the F***
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Post by ifpthenq on Jun 7, 2008 14:46:04 GMT -11
What the F*** WTF on Geistian assassination attempts, or on QM?
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Post by ifpthenq on Jun 7, 2008 14:47:09 GMT -11
Joe you sound just like the guys in the moviefilm that confused me in the first place. But.... I have a swimsuit--in a larger size--just like that...
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Post by literarysnob on Jun 7, 2008 16:17:48 GMT -11
On the QM stuff....remember that I am a literary person....I don;t get math stuff!!
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sandstone
Artemis
Be gneiss, and don't take your friends for granite!
Posts: 405
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Post by sandstone on Jun 7, 2008 17:42:11 GMT -11
Here is a simple way to look at the whole multi-dimensional thingy...
Lets compare our world as we know it (3 dimensions plus time), to a 2 dimensional world (plus time). We could represent that world as a flat piece of paper.
You could draw a square to represent a house belonging to Mr Flat. Mr Flat is sitting comfortably inside his flat square house, just minding his own business. When suddenly...
A horrible 3D alien (that would be you) puts their cup of coffee on top of his world! In fact, the coffee cup actually appears right in the middle of Mr Flat’s living room as if out of no where. Mr Flat couldn't see it approaching, because he only perceives reality in 2D! Only the horrible 3D alien can understand how it got there through the 2D walls of Mr Flat's very solid (from his perspective) house. And Mr Flat can't even see the whole cup; he only sees the part of it that intersects with his 2D world.
If the 3D alien picks up the coffee cup and moves it to a different spot on the paper, from Mr Flat's perspective it would look as if the cup suddenly and inexplicably disappeared and then reappeared in a different spot. (Of course the 3D alien will do this just to freak out poor Mr Flat.)
Then a 4D alien (a theoretical creature) decides to play a similar prank on the 3D alien. The 4D alien drops his coffee cup into the 3D world. From our perspective, it just appears out of no where because we are unable to perceive the dimension where it came from. We can’t see the entire 4D cup, just the 3D aspects of it that intersect with our 3D world. It freaks us out just like we freaked out Mr Flat (who says there is no Karma in Quantum Physics).
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