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Post by ifpthenq on May 18, 2008 13:50:36 GMT -11
Though I would rather make fun of GH--this was not really the topic at hand; and they make an easy mark. The question of whether or not a ghost can physically manipulate the ontological world in a substantial way was the original topic here.
Though I have heard many claims of paranormal forces manipulating objects or attacking people--I have never seen good evidence of this. Before this type of contact could be taken seriously it might be a good idea to develop some testable theories of how a ghost might interact with the world. But more importantly, while writing any theory of ghostly manipulation the author must first come up with a new physical set of laws that describes a world that ghosts can exist--and can have different properties than do living human beings.
PGA
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Post by xXSpookyXx on May 18, 2008 14:35:35 GMT -11
In the Armory episode we all saw Frank the "honest" cameraman get leveled by his bag--moved by the unknown... The footage was so dark that it was difficult to determine what was happening to the bag. The Ghost Hunters have an investment in getting the people watching to believe that Frank's bag moved by itself--they make a point of constantly analyzing the footage while making the claim that he couldn't have moved it himself. If we believe that the Ghost Hunters (original--not GHI) are entirely honest--and I certainly don't--we still have very weak footage that shows Frank's right side very unclearly (not to mention possible interference by another member accidentally). If we believe tampering and manipulation are present then any number of hypotheses could be put forward as to who, what, and why. I wouldn't get too excited by the "Armory" footage--nor think it is solid evidence of the physical manipulation of anything by paranormal means. The only thing I would posit from the footage is that Frank cries very easily for a grown man hit by an equipment bag. So sans a half an hour of waterworks, there is very little evidence available to the viewers of Ghost Hunters on this episode. PGA I totally agree! It's really something that can not confirm or unconfirm. They've been caught with so many other things it is too much of a credibility issue at this point.
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Post by JoeGeist on May 19, 2008 8:34:20 GMT -11
Though I would rather make fun of GH--this was not really the topic at hand; and they make an easy mark. The question of whether or not a ghost can physically manipulate the ontological world in a substantial way was the original topic here. Though I have heard many claims of paranormal forces manipulating objects or attacking people--I have never seen good evidence of this. Before this type of contact could be taken seriously it might be a good idea to develop some testable theories of how a ghost might interact with the world. But more importantly, while writing any theory of ghostly manipulation the author must first come up with a new physical set of laws that describes a world that ghosts can exist--and can have different properties than do living human beings. PGA IMO this wouldn't be a field where one set of theoretical laws would cut it. Considering the "physical framework" of where a ghost would exist is unobservable to us at this point. Many theories would have to be posited. Plug the evidence that we do have into the many theories to come up w/ something generally agreed upon. I think this would have to happen before any real guide lines were set.
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CougarBob
Hermes
Where is Everybody???
Posts: 997
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Post by CougarBob on May 27, 2008 2:50:36 GMT -11
How is it that a ghost can be seen? We see things because light bounces off of an object, enters our eyes, and we visually perceive it. If ghosts have light reflecting off of them, how do they turn invisible? If there is some internal light, what is its source? If the "ghost" somehow manipulates our brain waves and stimulates the visual cortex, that would explain much.
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Post by literarysnob on May 27, 2008 4:27:38 GMT -11
Remember Bob that we only have a limited understanding of the whole nature of physics and the laws of nature. There could be something at work that we don't yet understand.
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CougarBob
Hermes
Where is Everybody???
Posts: 997
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Post by CougarBob on May 27, 2008 7:35:09 GMT -11
There is a ton that we don't understand yet. In fact, I would bet that there is more than we think we know. That's why I was asking those questions. Those are things I've always wanted to know.
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Pinkberry
Artemis
I've looked into the eye of this island, and what I saw was beautiful
Posts: 312
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Post by Pinkberry on May 27, 2008 17:04:19 GMT -11
Everytime I see this thread..Olivia Newton John's "Lets get physical, physical...I WANNA GET PHYSICCALLLL..let me hear your body talk" goes off in my head.
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Post by krystalmoore1986 on May 27, 2008 19:12:50 GMT -11
I love when brian says if there is someone in here with us hit steve now! I was like no leave my man alone!!! lol.
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Post by ♥~KarinaKay~♥ on May 28, 2008 3:00:48 GMT -11
Everytime I see this thread..Olivia Newton John's "Lets get physical, physical...I WANNA GET PHYSICCALLLL..let me hear your body talk" goes off in my head. The video to that song in fantastic - hilarious and super sexy at the same time! Thanks for the memories! ;D youtube.com/watch?v=zsxX3ue5vR4
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Post by ifpthenq on Jun 1, 2008 8:58:44 GMT -11
Though I would rather make fun of GH--this was not really the topic at hand; and they make an easy mark. The question of whether or not a ghost can physically manipulate the ontological world in a substantial way was the original topic here. Though I have heard many claims of paranormal forces manipulating objects or attacking people--I have never seen good evidence of this. Before this type of contact could be taken seriously it might be a good idea to develop some testable theories of how a ghost might interact with the world. But more importantly, while writing any theory of ghostly manipulation the author must first come up with a new physical set of laws that describes a world that ghosts can exist--and can have different properties than do living human beings. PGA IMO this wouldn't be a field where one set of theoretical laws would cut it. Considering the "physical framework" of where a ghost would exist is unobservable to us at this point. Many theories would have to be posited. Plug the evidence that we do have into the many theories to come up w/ something generally agreed upon. I think this would have to happen before any real guide lines were set. The real question is not a simple theory--or a group of them--it is a paradigm shift in scientific thought. Generally speaking--and I mean a very loose application of the term--theoretical science uses similar foundational logic to describe the world it seeks to define; However, in the case of physics the rules can make for a bumpy ride. When Quantum mechanical theory was originally being invented (or if you are a Platonist, or other realist--discovered) different types of math were being applied to different theoretical constructions to describe similar events. Because of the similarity of logic, and the nature of the application, a general paradigm shift was seen in physical law that applied to the micro scale events (in contrast to the macro pardigm of relativity--that came on the scene around the same time). We need a new set of theoretical discussions--a general housing of new theoretical thought. With ghosts there is no consistent theoretical attempt that can explain the empirical observations. I think CougarBob's comment about the visual properties of ghosts is actually quite interesting. The properties of the visual spectrum of light would have to be a part of any new theory. Having a spirit as a semi-visual object requires a recasting of physical law--currently accepted theories in QM don't handle this type of physical manifestation. PGA
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