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Post by «Foz» on May 13, 2008 4:23:28 GMT -11
Of course, the Amityville story is always a matter of great debate. So what do you think?
I have a very interesting book called "Real Ghosts, Restless Spirits and Haunted Places" by Brad Steiger. It has a couple pages about Amityville that are very informative. Some of the details were exaggerated by Hollywood and the Lutz's have even said that. For example, the walls didn't ooze strange substances. However, an epoxy-like substance did ooze from some of the keyholes. Another thing I noticed is that the Warren's and the pyschic they brought to the home, Mary Pascarella, said it was horrible place, occupied by true evil. I take anything the Warren's or their associates say with a grain of salt - they have no credibility. My personal opinion is that there may have been a substance (i.e. chemical, gases, etc.) that may have caused hallucinations in the Lutz family. Perhaps the subsequent owners were not sensitive to the substance and therefore haven't had any strange occurences. The book states that Kathleen Lutz was taped in a interview and the tape was given to Charles R. Mcquiston, an expert in pychological stress evaluation. McQuiston said "I'm convinced this woman is telling the truth - or what she believes to be the truth...There are no deceptive traces in her voice...She really lived those horrible things and she believes in what she is recounting". This makes me believe that what happened may have only been in her mind, therefore she believes it to be true.
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Post by lissleigh on May 13, 2008 4:39:42 GMT -11
The book sounds interesting I might have to order it. Being that I'm about a half hour away from the "haunted" house. I hear some crazy things also. And I dont know if I believe it all. The Lutz's say that they had stuff oozing from the walls. And all these strories. There is a family that lives there now and they dont have anything going on there. It got so bad with people wanting to see the house that they actually had to change the front of the house, the house number. I even heard that the family knocked down the house and rebuilt it. Cause people were still coming to see if it is "haunted" I also heard the knocked down the boat house. But that had to be recently. Because my friend lives across the lake from there and I happen to see it when he pointed it out to me. I saw it in 2006.
For the Warrens. I'm not to fond of them. Well now Lorrane. I know shes "sensitive" to activity. But to say something is "evil" and then it not happen to the next family that lives there its kinda bull. So I dont belive them when they said it was haunted.
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Post by literarysnob on May 13, 2008 5:24:26 GMT -11
Somewhere I found a video of Mr Lutz being confronted with all of his tales, his then wife (now deceased) counters all of those by saying he's crazy and looking for the big pay off!!
Most of the time his response to the questions is a petrified stare and a couple of eye blinks!!!
I search for the site where I saw this and post it here.
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Post by lissleigh on May 13, 2008 6:17:13 GMT -11
That would be great Lit, Thanks
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Post by xXSpookyXx on May 13, 2008 6:51:26 GMT -11
Somewhere I found a video of Mr Lutz being confronted with all of his tales, his then wife (now ex) counters all of those by saying he's crazy and looking for the big pay off!! Most of the time his response to the questions is a petrified stare and a couple of eye blinks!!! I search for the site where I saw this and post it here. I have poured over a lot of the stuff pertaining to this. I think I do vaguely recall this interview. I have poured over other interview transcripts with him and one thing that really strikes me is that he can't keep his story straight. For instance...on one hand he will claim that there was a nasty thunderstorm that night in January, then on the other hand he says a different tale about it. No weather reports showed any thunderstorm that night, and thunderstorms are out of season any way. Another thing, they claim they fled leaving all their belongings behind never to reclaim them. But what most people who don't research this do not know is that most of the furniture was not theirs in the first place and were actually the Defeo's furniture that had just been included with the house when it went up for sale. Even the Lutz boys were sleeping in the death beds where two other boys died a year before (different mattress of course). One neighborhood boy who was good friends with the Defeo boys didn't even feel comfortable playing in their room because all the furniture was his since deceased friends. Another thing not a lot of people realize is that George did not stay away from the house. The neighbors attest to the fact that he returned to have yard sales. Another thing to consider is that it did not take long at all for this alledged terrified family to start booking interviews and closed a book deal on the ordeal all within two months of leaving. To me this looks like cool calm and calculated plans rather than a family startled by demons in their house.
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Post by lissleigh on May 13, 2008 7:04:43 GMT -11
Somewhere I found a video of Mr Lutz being confronted with all of his tales, his then wife (now ex) counters all of those by saying he's crazy and looking for the big pay off!! Most of the time his response to the questions is a petrified stare and a couple of eye blinks!!! I search for the site where I saw this and post it here. I have poured over a lot of the stuff pertaining to this. I think I do vaguely recall this interview. I have poured over other interview transcripts with him and one thing that really strikes me is that he can't keep his story straight. For instance...on one hand he will claim that there was a nasty thunderstorm that night in January, then on the other hand he says a different tale about it. No weather reports showed any thunderstorm that night, and thunderstorms are out of season any way. Another thing, they claim they fled leaving all their belongings behind never to reclaim them. But what most people who don't research this do not know is that most of the furniture was not theirs in the first place and were actually the Defeo's furniture that had just been included with the house when it went up for sale. Even the Lutz boys were sleeping in the death beds where two other boys died a year before (different mattress of course). One neighborhood boy who was good friends with the Defeo boys didn't even feel comfortable playing in their room because all the furniture was his since deceased friends. Another thing not a lot of people realize is that George did not stay away from the house. The neighbors attest to the fact that he returned to have yard sales. Another thing to consider is that it did not take long at all for this alledged terrified family to start booking interviews and closed a book deal on the ordeal all within two months of leaving. To me this looks like cool calm and calculated plans rather than a family startled by demons in their house. Wow Spooky. I didnt know any of that! It never came up in my research about that. Or my sisters. But I am sure going to pass the message along when I see her Sunday. Thanks for the info! You rock Spooky!
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Post by xXSpookyXx on May 13, 2008 7:43:48 GMT -11
You're welcome! What I am considering doing is compiling at least all the internet sources out there, and some of them do include the stuff I mentioned so this will serve as an aid to help others that want to research this case. One of the biggest apologist arguments I here is that the Lutz's could not have known this would have been such a big money maker. I would say baloney to that. For one thing, it was an infamous murder with an infamous trial that was all over national TV. Moreover, it was common knowledge that part of Ronald Jr's defense strategies was to claim voices in his head and plead insanity. A devil made me do it tactic. The Lutz's moved in only a year later, so the murders were quite fresh on everyone's mind. So you can imagine headlines "Family tormented by demons a year later, in the infamous murder house!!" Of course that is quite an attention getter with such a nationally recognized murder. Moreover, George Lutz was running into financial problems and his business was not doing well, and he had just taken on this house that was well beyond his means. Just think of it from his point of view, a neat ghost tale about the infamous murder house was most likely going to at least book them enough National TV interviews to pull himself out of financial debt. And his immediate actions proceeding departure from that house, booking interviews and a book deal are very telling on the motive.
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Post by literarysnob on May 13, 2008 7:47:11 GMT -11
when it all came to it they only got about $250,000 bucks off the deal!!! Wife died of some lung/breathing desease, and he droped early too. But you never hear about the kids anymore??? What happened to them??? Changed their names and living quitely some place?
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Post by lissleigh on May 13, 2008 8:14:33 GMT -11
You're welcome! What I am considering doing is compiling at least all the internet sources out there, and some of them do include the stuff I mentioned so this will serve as an aid to help others that want to research this case. One of the biggest apologist arguments I here is that the Lutz's could not have known this would have been such a big money maker. I would say baloney to that. For one thing, it was an infamous murder with an infamous trial that was all over national TV. Moreover, it was common knowledge that part of Ronald Jr's defense strategies was to claim voices in his head and plead insanity. A devil made me do it tactic. The Lutz's moved in only a year later, so the murders were quite fresh on everyone's mind. So you can imagine headlines "Family tormented by demons a year later, in the infamous murder house!!" Of course that is quite an attention getter with such a nationally recognized murder. Moreover, George Lutz was running into financial problems and his business was not doing well, and he had just taken on this house that was well beyond his means. Just think of it from his point of view, a neat ghost tale about the infamous murder house was most likely going to at least book them enough National TV interviews to pull himself out of financial debt. And his immediate actions proceeding departure from that house, booking interviews and a book deal are very telling on the motive. Those headlines could have had a big part of it too. IDK if i believe any of it. Everything could have been in there mind. Because they KNEW what happened there. My sister and I just want to go there and see if we can see the house. My brother has seen it before they changed everything. So he knows what houses are supposed to be next to it. We wanted to take a ride this summer down there so maybe we will. I'll take pictures and post them here!
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Post by xXSpookyXx on May 13, 2008 9:36:27 GMT -11
From what I have found everything was in their mind as a creative way to get money, which is also what Weber (Defeo's attorney) testified to. He stated that he and Mr. Lutz came up with the idea while drinking wine together. In fact he had sued George Lutz's for the exclusion of his part in the whole idea.
To be honest, I really do not mind whether or not the Lutz's wanted to invent a ghost story tale about a place they lived, after all, who doesn't like a good ghost tale? But what bothers me the most is the victimization that any family that has tried to live there afterwards has endured due to, not deceased people's souls or demons but the spirits still living in the form of live and breathing humans. Imagine having curious onlookers spying on your house all the time, and even trespassing to steal artifacts from your property or peek inside your windows? On several occasions people have defecated on their porch or caused malicious destruction of their property. THey have come home to blood splashed on their doors and all kinds of malicious things. Moreover some guy was video taping the house from the back at night, video taping the people in their kitchen and then boasting about it and offering to share it. Imagine living like that. So it's these things that upset me the most about it. While I certainly understand curiousity and all, I just think that the feelings of the occupants should always be considered before making any more that further causes hurt or feeds the flame of the circus that comes in front of the house on occasions.
Let's not forget the real horror that took place that often gets shadowed by the urban legend created by the Lutz...dysfunctional abusive and volitile living conditions let up to the lose of lives that wiped out an entire family.
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Post by lissleigh on May 13, 2008 9:52:00 GMT -11
I completly agree. What people do to make money. Its disgusting and wrong. People crave money. And it's sad that other people have to deal with the wrong doings. Its so sad that people throw blood on the porch. Its not the new family's fault that the Defeos had the murders happen. But the Lutz is just wrong. Make money off these victims. Thats sad. I understand the man had a broken buisness, but why torment the family of the dead with all these"ghost" stories. Just for money. Thats not fair to them. It give them hope that they are still around and want to talk to them. I could never see myself doing that for money for my son, or just for me. Its selfish.
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Post by xXSpookyXx on May 13, 2008 10:31:42 GMT -11
I completly agree. What people do to make money. Its disgusting and wrong. People crave money. And it's sad that other people have to deal with the wrong doings. Its so sad that people throw blood on the porch. Its not the new family's fault that the Defeos had the murders happen. But the Lutz is just wrong. Make money off these victims. Thats sad. I understand the man had a broken buisness, but why torment the family of the dead with all these"ghost" stories. Just for money. Thats not fair to them. It give them hope that they are still around and want to talk to them. I could never see myself doing that for money for my son, or just for me. Its selfish. Exactly and sadest part is, the torment and beaten the other familys that moved in afterward were not because of the actual horror but because of the "Demon house" propaganda pushed by the Lutz's. Heck I wouldn't have even minded it if they went ahead with a ghost story about a house they lived in, BUT omitted the address and even changed enough so that no one could figure out which state it was even in. I will try to find a page with interviews from George Lutz's. Unfortunately he passed away last year after his lawsuit against the new Amityville horror. Kathy Lutz had passed away a few years prior due to emphasema.
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Post by literarysnob on May 13, 2008 11:01:58 GMT -11
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Post by xXSpookyXx on May 13, 2008 11:08:03 GMT -11
Thanks for sharing those, Lit! That's a good special! I also have one here where the owners and occupants after the Lutz's, The Cromarty's are interviewed by "That's Incredible" and sharing the horrible things they were put through my all these curious onlookers. They also reassure that OTHER THAN living breathing human's stalking them and their home, the house is quite nice and comfortable. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bFmW7tSmmY
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Post by ♥~KarinaKay~♥ on May 14, 2008 3:18:38 GMT -11
Thanks for sharing the videos - I've been really enjoying them!
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