Pinkberry
Artemis
I've looked into the eye of this island, and what I saw was beautiful
Posts: 312
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Post by Pinkberry on Jul 1, 2008 19:08:11 GMT -11
I agree..I also have my doubts about evolution as well (and no Im not a crazy conspiracy theorist). I just think that when an idea becomes popular among some 'popular' figures in our history, that people like to jump on the band wagon and believe it. I'd have to disagree with you on evolution. There is just an amazing amount of evidence supporting it. Just do some reading up on the Cambrian Explosion and the Great Ordovician Biodiversity Event. Then you can get a feel for the changes in species diversity and the evolution of life as the early Earth underwent various types of changes (glaciation, tectonic events, sea level changes, etc). Oh no believe me, I'm met with the same arguments everyday (cell molecular biology major). However some parts of it just don't add up to me.
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sandstone
Artemis
Be gneiss, and don't take your friends for granite!
Posts: 405
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Post by sandstone on Jul 2, 2008 7:57:57 GMT -11
I'd have to disagree with you on evolution. There is just an amazing amount of evidence supporting it. Just do some reading up on the Cambrian Explosion and the Great Ordovician Biodiversity Event. Then you can get a feel for the changes in species diversity and the evolution of life as the early Earth underwent various types of changes (glaciation, tectonic events, sea level changes, etc). Oh no believe me, I'm met with the same arguments everyday (cell molecular biology major). However some parts of it just don't add up to me. Which parts? There are so many areas of science that continue to add to the supporting evidence for evolution. Just saying that "it doesn't add up" doesn't do much to counteract all that evidence. Science requires us to put forward our best critical thinking into considering the evidence. If you have concerns with specific bits of evidence, then put them out there for consideration. Science progresses when new evidence is pointed out that doesn't fit the established theories, because then we have to come up with better explainations. Do you have specific reasons to question evolution? Do you have a better explaination for all the evidence out there that supports evolution?
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Post by 2spooked on Jul 3, 2008 9:37:10 GMT -11
I grew up in a private school, went to church, blah blah... "evolution does not exist". Personally, I think all things "evolve". Do I believe in the theory of evolution as the scientists put forth? No, I don't. I don't believe in the "Big Bang". But I do think that there has been an evolution of sorts through the ages.
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Post by krystalmoore1986 on Jul 3, 2008 11:30:45 GMT -11
since we are way off topic now discussing evolution I would like to ask a question. I ask this only because I was not raised in a religious household, and have never been to church. I am not asking anyone to question their beliefs I am just wondering what the teachings are from the church involving dinosaurs, and the age of the earth. The generally accepted theory in the scientific world is that the earth is approx 4.5 billion years old. The church teaches that it was made a few thousand years ago right? So does the church disagree with the science in carbon dating, or what is their response to that. Also I have always wondered if they teach anything about dinosaurs. There are bones showing they are real so thats not really up for debate but I have always wondered if religious people believe dinos and humans walked the earth at the same time, since I believe the bible teaches that adam and eve were the first living things on earth. Once again I mean no offense to noone, I just am not sure if it is possible to believe that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and believe in god. Or if someone can believe dinosaurs were around millions of years ago and believe in god. I always have been very confused by that.
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Post by 2spooked on Jul 3, 2008 12:16:15 GMT -11
I'm not sure I can answer all of that.. but I believe the dinosaurs existed (I mean- we have proof of their existence).. and I also believe in God (and I realize many do question His existence). My church was kind of wacko (considered a cult by many). I don't recall the ministry ever questioning dinosaurs, though. They were more concerned about the Bible, and believing exactly what was written- taking everything literally. Thus, God created the earth in seven days... there could have been no "Big Bang". I want to say that I've heard there were at least two "creations", though. God scrapped everything and started over.. I haven't been to church in over a decade.. so my thoughts on a lot of things have changed over time. But I never had a reason to doubt there was/is a God, so that belief has never changed. Call me weird. It's ok.
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CougarBob
Hermes
Where is Everybody???
Posts: 997
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Post by CougarBob on Jul 3, 2008 12:56:21 GMT -11
since we are way off topic now discussing evolution I would like to ask a question. I ask this only because I was not raised in a religious household, and have never been to church. I am not asking anyone to question their beliefs I am just wondering what the teachings are from the church involving dinosaurs, and the age of the earth. The generally accepted theory in the scientific world is that the earth is approx 4.5 billion years old. The church teaches that it was made a few thousand years ago right? So does the church disagree with the science in carbon dating, or what is their response to that. Also I have always wondered if they teach anything about dinosaurs. There are bones showing they are real so thats not really up for debate but I have always wondered if religious people believe dinos and humans walked the earth at the same time, since I believe the bible teaches that adam and eve were the first living things on earth. Once again I mean no offense to noone, I just am not sure if it is possible to believe that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and believe in god. Or if someone can believe dinosaurs were around millions of years ago and believe in god. I always have been very confused by that. Saying that "the church" believes something is like saying people believe something. It depends on which church and which person you are talking about. Some churches teach that the Bible must be taken word for word. Other churches say that the Bible is a how-to manual with a lot of symbolism in it.
You tend to find the strict "every word is true" religions are the "born again" or evangelical churches. Many of them (note I didn't say all) have calculated the age of the earth by counting the generations in the old testament. Some of them have calculated the beginning of the earth to be around 6,000 years ago. Dinosaurs? They believe they existed, they just think they and humans co-existed. Then the dinosaurs must have been wiped out by Noah's flood.
The churches who don't believe in strictly adhering to every word in the Bible are the more established main stream churches. Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterians, etc. And, even among those, you will find huge variations in belief. The church I attend (though not with great regularity) is the Methodist church. I am attracted to them because they tend to say, "if that's what you truly believe, then cool, believe it. We have no problem with that." They do preach from the Bible, but if you have a problem with anything in it, that's okay. They won't burn you at the stake.
Personally, I do believe in a God. I believe that the entity created everything, all laws of physics, evolution, matter, energy, everything in a trillionth of a second in an event we call the Big Bang. I think that an intelligence that could do that must be way way beyond our ability to conceive. And, that is the definition of God.
I also believe that this is a VERY scary topic to discuss here.
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sandstone
Artemis
Be gneiss, and don't take your friends for granite!
Posts: 405
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Post by sandstone on Jul 3, 2008 13:47:15 GMT -11
Sorry to get so far off topic! If someone says that they don't believe in evolution for religious reasons, I'm fine with that. Religion is religion and there are lots of various directions to go with it. I know scientists that are very religious, as well as those that are atheists. I think it is probably less complicated to be a non-religious scientist, it works for me anyway. If someone says that they disagree with evolution as a scientist, then that’s a little different because then they should back up their argument with scientific evidence. I wouldn’t go to a conference and say to a speaker “I don’t agree with what you have just presented” without having something to back up that statement. It’s kind of like telling someone “you’ve been served” and not being willing and able to dance the dance.
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Post by bowl on Jul 4, 2008 0:25:03 GMT -11
since we are way off topic now discussing evolution I would like to ask a question. I ask this only because I was not raised in a religious household, and have never been to church. I am not asking anyone to question their beliefs I am just wondering what the teachings are from the church involving dinosaurs, and the age of the earth. The generally accepted theory in the scientific world is that the earth is approx 4.5 billion years old. The church teaches that it was made a few thousand years ago right? So does the church disagree with the science in carbon dating, or what is their response to that. Also I have always wondered if they teach anything about dinosaurs. There are bones showing they are real so thats not really up for debate but I have always wondered if religious people believe dinos and humans walked the earth at the same time, since I believe the bible teaches that adam and eve were the first living things on earth. Once again I mean no offense to noone, I just am not sure if it is possible to believe that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and believe in god. Or if someone can believe dinosaurs were around millions of years ago and believe in god. I always have been very confused by that. It doesn't teach that Adam and Eve are the first living things on Earth. Actually there are references to the fact that the Earth was here before them and that creatures roamed it. I believe that the view of the Bible refers to what was created starting in Genesis 1. Before that is for us to decide. I don't want to argue with anyone either, that's just my opinion.
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Pinkberry
Artemis
I've looked into the eye of this island, and what I saw was beautiful
Posts: 312
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Post by Pinkberry on Jul 4, 2008 8:16:31 GMT -11
Sorry to get so far off topic! If someone says that they don't believe in evolution for religious reasons, I'm fine with that. Religion is religion and there are lots of various directions to go with it. I know scientists that are very religious, as well as those that are atheists. I think it is probably less complicated to be a non-religious scientist, it works for me anyway. If someone says that they disagree with evolution as a scientist, then that’s a little different because then they should back up their argument with scientific evidence. I wouldn’t go to a conference and say to a speaker “I don’t agree with what you have just presented” without having something to back up that statement. It’s kind of like telling someone “you’ve been served” and not being willing and able to dance the dance. I know that Im replying to this late but my views on it are complicated. Though you would probably like it if I went thoroughly down each piece of evidence and told you why I dont fully accept evolution as 100% I feel this topic might get kind of scary so I'll keep my opinions to myself.
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CougarBob
Hermes
Where is Everybody???
Posts: 997
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Post by CougarBob on Jul 9, 2008 13:32:19 GMT -11
It doesn't teach that Adam and Eve are the first living things on Earth. Actually there are references to the fact that the Earth was here before them and that creatures roamed it. I believe that the view of the Bible refers to what was created starting in Genesis 1. Before that is for us to decide. I don't want to argue with anyone either, that's just my opinion. Since the Old Testament began as a bard's tale by a nomadic people, it was most likely talking about their own beginnings. If you look at the bard's tales of most tribal peoples, their creation stories are usually about themselves. Often, as with "Native" American, the story depicts themselves as the main group of humans during creation. They refer to themselves as "the human beings" or "the people", even though they acknowledge that other tribes existed.
In the case of Adam and Eve, it mentions that their children found wives in nearby lands. Perhaps they were non-members of the early Hebrews. That's why those people were not mentioned in the creation story.
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