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Post by ifpthenq on Jun 5, 2008 19:28:31 GMT -11
The Loyd Auerbach response to TAPS on the MBD site: www.mossbeachdistillery.com/ghost.htmlWhen I watched the episode I remember the location being used in other ghost docu-productions (the lady in the mirror is well known) and wondered if J&G were having some sort of a mild memory loss. I had a terrible thought--forgive me if any other posts mention this possibility--that this debunking was merely a polemic tool to reassure the fans that after Manson, J&G are truly interested in honesty. While no official stance has been taken on the Manson doctoring, Jason and Grant can now appear to be the skeptical force of honesty--while the siteowners are then offerred up as cannon fodder for our skeptical amusement. Though it would not stand up to direct refutation--this image would reinforce the Ghost Hunter's image as skeptical scientists that want only truth. This is similar to a cadidate for president telling a blatant sad lie about being under sniper fire--then having the situation smooth over by political posturing, and negative distraction tactics. Many of us know that Ghost Hunters is fraudulent--but many more seem to forget this detail. PGA
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Post by JoeGeist on Jun 5, 2008 19:41:55 GMT -11
The Loyd Auerbach response to TAPS on the MBD site: www.mossbeachdistillery.com/ghost.htmlWhen I watched the episode I remember the location being used in other ghost docu-productions (the lady in the mirror is well known) and wondered if J&G were having some sort of a mild memory loss. I had a terrible thought--forgive me if any other posts mention this possibility--that this debunking was merely a polemic tool to reassure the fans that after Manson, J&G are truly interested in honesty. While no official stance has been taken on the Manson doctoring, Jason and Grant can now appear to be the skeptical force of honesty--while the siteowners are then offerred up as cannon fodder for our skeptical amusement. Though it would not stand up to direct refutation--this image would reinforce the Ghost Hunter's image as skeptical scientists that want only truth. This is similar to a cadidate for president telling a blatant sad lie about being under sniper fire--then having the situation smooth over by political posturing, and negative distraction tactics. Many of us know that Ghost Hunters is fraudulent--but many more seem to forget this detail. PGA I did state this but no where near as eloquently, in our chat. There is no way in hell they didn't know about this place. The cook that presented it did all he could to keep a straight face, and there was conveniently no research done. I don't buy it.
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Post by hoobsmom on Jun 5, 2008 19:45:11 GMT -11
Oh , thank goodness I have been saying this since last night. They cannot say they didnt know. I think they did this show to bolster thier credibility. They did get thier rabid fans all upset. But I think a lot of viewers are smart enough to know it was all a sham.
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Post by krystalmoore1986 on Jun 5, 2008 22:49:00 GMT -11
I feel bad for these people that let taps come in and be rude to them because they are a bunch of ignorant baffoons and now jay posts in his blog he strongly recommends noone ever go to this place that it "is what it is"
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Post by ♥~KarinaKay~♥ on Jun 6, 2008 1:29:15 GMT -11
Oh, and if you haven't checked out the responses on Skeptical Reviewer, do so. I see that some people have decided to make some very strange claims about Auerbach. Take it all with a grain of salt....and a big dose of ambien. Michael I definitely will! I don't know much about Auerbach, but I know you. I can separate the wheat from the chaff. LOL
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Post by ♥~KarinaKay~♥ on Jun 6, 2008 1:31:41 GMT -11
I agree with you all. ifpthenq, joe, Deb, Krystal. This is pretty much what I tried to scream on skiffy yesterday.
I feel really bad for Moss Beach.
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Post by drmichaelrhodes on Jun 6, 2008 6:35:01 GMT -11
I did state this but no where near as eloquently, in our chat. There is no way in hell they didn't know about this place. The cook that presented it did all he could to keep a straight face, and there was conveniently no research done. I don't buy it. Joe Geist, and IFPTHENQ TAPS is in a very bad position here I think. Either they knew the place had special effects and are perpetuating the lie that they didn't know or they didn't know the place had special effects but are grossly incompetent for not knowing. Furthermore, given that Pilgrim did know (Spencer and the management informed them of the special effects), either TAPS is conspiring with Pilgrim to deceive the public or TAPS was duped by Pilgrim. Clearly, the entire segment was designed to make TAPS look like victims and to depict the Distillery as the bad guy. The editing job on Spencer was priceless. You can create any reality you want with editing. Michael
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Post by ifpthenq on Jun 6, 2008 7:28:55 GMT -11
I did state this but no where near as eloquently, in our chat. There is no way in hell they didn't know about this place. The cook that presented it did all he could to keep a straight face, and there was conveniently no research done. I don't buy it. Joe Geist, and IFPTHENQ TAPS is in a very bad position here I think. Either they knew the place had special effects and are perpetuating the lie that they didn't know or they didn't know the place had special effects but are grossly incompetent for not knowing. Furthermore, given that Pilgrim did know (Spencer and the management informed them of the special effects), either TAPS is conspiring with Pilgrim to deceive the public or TAPS was duped by Pilgrim. Clearly, the entire segment was designed to make TAPS look like victims and to depict the Distillery as the bad guy. The editing job on Spencer was priceless. You can create any reality you want with editing. Michael I agree with Dr. M. R. here, Auerbach's statement against TAPS mentioned that the producers were made aware of the special effects; a feature of the distillery since the 90's. Auerbach also mentioned the numerous television programs that have featured the distillery. The special effects were common, very common, obviously common knowledge--any investigator that wishes to be taken seriously must do a historical analysis on a site. I don't think too many people on this board, or on the Sci Fi board, are under the TAPS is an innocent pawn umbrella; though I admit I don't frequent the Sci Fi board anymore so the tenor of that community might have shifted recently. So many probably saw silly issues such as this one in the works at Pilgrim and Sci Fi. I find TAPS' role in this to be a comic and pathetic one. They have set themselves as either an ill-equiped, and uneducated, research group--for not having learned of an obvious element to the site; or they are continuing their fraudulent ways, using misdirection to improve their public image. Whoever is working PR for Pilgrim, Sci Fi, and/or TAPS needs to remove their head from someone's backside and start doing their job again--Moss Beach was a very poorly thought out presentation. PGA
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stick28
Artemis
Once I had a secret love. But then she spotted me and got a restraining order.
Posts: 217
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Post by stick28 on Jun 6, 2008 8:01:21 GMT -11
I live just a couple miles from the Center For Inquiry, home to people like Paul Kurtz and Joe Nickell who are on the forefront of debunking anything paranormal. They are scientists, and they want to weigh, measure, and in some fashion quantify everything. That's fine. But simply because something cannot be quantified does not mean it doesn't exist. It might just mean that we haven't invented the proper measuring tool.
I've often said, "You can measure force of a hurricane, but you cannot measure the affect of a thought. The paranormal is not a hurricane, it's a gentle, barely noticeable breeze that is sometimes sensed, but rarely touched."
And then come people like TAPS who claim to believe in the paranormal, and claim to be interested in finding real evidence. But what do they really do? They sell out for a few moments of TV fame, and make a joke of the belief, and betray the believers. Maybe the MBD is their "jump the shark" moment.
I don't know who is the bigger jerk. TAPS for selling out, or me for expecting anything more. The Beatles were right: I should have known better!
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Post by hoobsmom on Jun 6, 2008 9:41:43 GMT -11
I agree with you all. ifpthenq, joe, Deb, Krystal. This is pretty much what I tried to scream on skiffy yesterday. I feel really bad for Moss Beach. Yeah KK I tried to give my opinion on SKiffy too but they don't want to hear it there. What the heck happened did TAPS send a bunch of thier people there to do damage control?
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Post by krystalmoore1986 on Jun 6, 2008 10:11:03 GMT -11
I agree with you all. ifpthenq, joe, Deb, Krystal. This is pretty much what I tried to scream on skiffy yesterday. I feel really bad for Moss Beach. Yeah KK I tried to give my opinion on SKiffy too but they don't want to hear it there. What the heck happened did TAPS send a bunch of thier people there to do damage control? I agree I have been there a few times today it was a mafia over there.
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Post by ghishannon on Jun 6, 2008 10:31:00 GMT -11
I saw this restaurant location on a pararnormal show two years ago, I believe it was Haunted Travels. They absolutely showed us the place was rigged, they didnt hide it at all. The tour guide pointed out all the objects they rigged for audio or movement. How is it I was the only person who watched this episode? Does anyone else remember this show? Perhaps they are running out of cases to investigate, hey guys how about a haunted schoolhouse from the 1800's? I dont have a gift shop though...
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Post by «Foz» on Jun 6, 2008 10:37:41 GMT -11
I remember seeing that too, Shannon. I just couldn't think of what show it was - I think you're right that it was Haunted Travels. When I watched GH, I knew the place looked familiar and when I saw the stuff rigged up, I knew I'd seen it on TV before.
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Post by ghishannon on Jun 6, 2008 10:39:54 GMT -11
In my opinion, they all knew. Its not hard to find the details of the case and normally locations are scouted first.
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Post by ifpthenq on Jun 6, 2008 10:56:28 GMT -11
I live just a couple miles from the Center For Inquiry, home to people like Paul Kurtz and Joe Nickell who are on the forefront of debunking anything paranormal. They are scientists, and they want to weigh, measure, and in some fashion quantify everything. That's fine. But simply because something cannot be quantified does not mean it doesn't exist. It might just mean that we haven't invented the proper measuring tool. I've often said, "You can measure force of a hurricane, but you cannot measure the affect of a thought. The paranormal is not a hurricane, it's a gentle, barely noticeable breeze that is sometimes sensed, but rarely touched." And then come people like TAPS who claim to believe in the paranormal, and claim to be interested in finding real evidence. But what do they really do? They sell out for a few moments of TV fame, and make a joke of the belief, and betray the believers. Maybe the MBD is their "jump the shark" moment. I don't know who is the bigger jerk. TAPS for selling out, or me for expecting anything more. The Beatles were right: I should have known better! I agree. There is a huge difference between what a subjective mind can experience, and a positivistic scientist can objectively show in the laboratory. Just because it can't be quantified (yet) doesn't mean it isn't real; it only means it isn't testable (yet). PGA
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